Advice for Running a Tournament

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Eddie, Mar 13, 2016.

  1. Eddie

    Eddie Level 0 Character

    I have run many D&D events at conventions before, but never an actual tournament. I loved playing in the AD&D Open at GEN CON, and learned those tournaments comprised 7 distinct 4-hour-length adventure events. I feel I have many great contributions to offer.

    I'd love to use one of the board rooms, with the long wooden tables, for the final round.

    I am alone doing this, so I would make my first tournament only 2 rounds. The first round would have 3 separate adventures, where the two best teams advanced to the 2nd round. That event would feature both teams playing at the same table against the other to see who wins.

    Everyone would receive a certificate for participation, acknowledging how far they got in which round(s), and there could be a small prize to the winners but it's all really just for fun. My attitude toward the competition is not what you'd expect. I am seeing it as a contest between the agents of different kingdoms or factions in Greyhawk. Winning, in the game world, is important if you get into the story and want your side to win.

    Night of the Black Swords, for instance, is a tournament reprint from Allen Hammack I bought this year from the dealer room. In that adventure, you play agents working for none other than Asmodeus, the king of the devils in the Nine Hells or Baator.

    You can choose what side to play in my tournament, and have a different adventure in the first round to approach victory. In the final round, you may square off against the other side, without them even realizing who you're working for, in an ultimate backstab! Or you can work together to achieve a goal to your mutual benefit.

    I'm a really nice DM, honestly. I don't normally permit PC-to-PC violence or betrayal at my table, but I love the game and I want to bring the game world to life as much as I can. The enemies have their own adventurers out there, normally working behind the scenes or to be taken on as NPC's in the adventures of heroes. But in some cases, it gets complicated. As DM, I can't do justice to playing competing NPC's on separate teams at once. As DM, I want to be curious to see who wins, to stay at that viewpoint and let the players, with their heroes, mercenaries, or villains decide the outcome ultimately.

    The World of Greyhawk is such a place. There are so many different countries, organizations, and individuals of great power competing for the same territory or resources. Just take the Circle of the Eight. Would you enjoy playing a side working for them? And what if Rary, Vecna, Iuz, or some other opponent sends their own team? One team, or perhaps more I will happily control. But the game is very interesting when I don't even see who the good guys are, basically, when I don't see only 1 team I'd like to win. (Rooting for the good guys, in the end, even though I am playing the monsters fairly, and quite cleverly.)

    Does anyone have any suggestions or advice for me? I hope I don't come across as presumptuous. Would anyone be interested in collaborating, and running 1 or more rounds of the tournament?
     
  2. Um. As somebody who ran his first convention game in, oh, 1975 or 1976....

    It would be a HUGE logistical effort, and you'd be pretty much taking up your entire convention with it. Back in the TSR early days Gary, Rob, and anybody else involved used to complain bitterly about how much work it was.

    Honestly, my best advice is "don't do it, it's a thousand times more work than you imagine."
     
    mark likes this.
  3. sir jon

    sir jon Spellbinder

    Yeah, as one of the GMs for the GaryCon Open, you have set yourself up for a logistical nightmare of epic size. I'm not sure how you could possibly make this work within the confines.
     
  4. stahlnee

    stahlnee Spellbinder

    Not advise to run such an event. Any structure might come across as subjective since different players would experience different events.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2016
  5. Buttmonkey

    Buttmonkey Troubadour

    Start small. Run a one round tournament with multiple sessions. Have the players in each round vote for the MVP of that session. You pick which team did the best in the adventure. Give prizes ot each of the MVPs as well as a winner's prize for everyone in the winning session. Multi-round tournaments are a big enterprise, as mentioned above. You don't need the hassle of coordinating that many play sessions with multiple GMs and the real risk that advancing players will blow off subsequent rounds when they conflict with their other events.
     
    mark likes this.
  6. Eddie

    Eddie Level 0 Character

    Hi! Thanks for the reply. I have been playing since 85'. I've always put in a lot of time to my games, going back to high school when I ran the Gamers' Guild. It's like being on a roller coaster when I am piecing everything together, printing out everyone's handouts, and adding up everyone's experience. I used to keep detailed records, and summaries of every adventure so people could take a look back at what came before. Since I am actually in the area of Lake Geneva, I think I'd be willing to make a large enough commitment. But I have never run an actual tournament at a convention before.

    I have worked out certain parts of a foundation for my efforts.

    1) Since I do a lot with Greyhawk, and this is for GaryCon, I want to use that world. I want to have a detailed story, terse enough to be read by anyone, but also involved, to be a place where players can feel they are part of a larger, believable world. They have to care enough to want to have characters there, because playing this will be an investment of their time.
    2) The dice need to be good. I use Gamescience dice for all very important rolls, and would recommend to the table they use them or share the same sets between them so if there are any funny dice everyone gets to use them. This isn't because someone may cheat, but some dice just don't approximate random results well enough. In fairness to other manufacturers, I use plenty of other dice, and I have not tested any dice to a scientific standard, but I see different dice from the same companies roll funny. The latest I bought, for example, is weighted the heaviest towards the 20 on the d20, of any die I've ever rolled. Knowing this, I could take it to a game and roll it in a pinch when I want a good chance to get a 20. That would be a cheat, and having just seen it this year at GaryCon I feel it's necessary to make a rule about the dice.
    3) Changes to the established rules should be printed out and explained succinctly to the players, along with house rules and other new content.
    4) Rulings about the spells, other character actions, and whatever else should balance concerns between the DM or adventure author and what we shall say is the player's right to have the spell or other thing take effect however they would be right to expect it to as long as they are interpreting it in an honest, fair way. The spell, Bigby's Grasping Hand, for instance says in 2nd Edition, that it will hold the target creature "motionless". It goes on to say it has a number of HP, and can be destroyed if enough damage is done to it.
    In my case, I wondered if the writer had meant for the captured creature to be able to hack its own way free, because in writing that way of getting out down, it made it read that way to me. But to my player(s), the captured creature was totally unable to move as per the word, motionless. That interpretation was fair, so I went with it even though the monster this was done to was the boss of the dungeon and I hadn't foreseen this easy way to beat it. The DM should not alter the rules. The one exception is if it will really cut short the adventure to the point where you'd apologize for not preparing more, and then the players have to agree to take back that action and choose another one.
    In another example, Knock could be used to unlock all locks in an area of effect as per the spell description. Not just 1 lock, which is thought to be the case because the spell reads like that when it says doors and other means of egress that are double or triple locked will need additional castings of Knock to fully unlock. The player had used the spell the way he interpreted it before, so I let him do that in spite of not foreseeing that. If the quest was all about finding the right keys to open a door, then I may have asked him to reconsider his action because it would end the adventure too quickly for us all. I feel it's my job to let you play as much like you do at home as I can, and that the rules in print form the basis for all the ingenuity you need them to. I know what it's like to be a player looking for a solution somewhere in the book.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2016
  7. Eddie

    Eddie Level 0 Character

    The most challenging part for me is actually finding enough players. I am not confident that I can attract enough players who will attend both rounds, but the more games I run well, the easier that will become through word of mouth and player-return the following year.

    I like to run 24 hours+ events every year, so the structure I devised is okay with me. I'd probably run each 1st round game in a 4 hour session, and the 2nd round in 6 hours or 8 if they make that available again.

    For the 2nd round, everyone would get a special folder containing their character information, and significant prep time. The 1st round events would be comparably easy, both in terms of DMing and the challenges faced by the party. My focus would be to make each session as fun as possible, and there would be no trap options anywhere because I'm not eliminating 30-40 teams each round.
     
  8. Eddie

    Eddie Level 0 Character

    There are pro's and con's, and that is inevitably one con for any such tournament, but I think if I put enough thought into equalizing the scenarios everyone would understand that nothing unfair was done in the end. I would treat every team as if they were players from home, whose characters meant something to them, and not pull any "Gotchas!" or anything. It will be subjective which teams advance, but I have a few metrics I could use such as totaling XP and GP value of treasure.
     
  9. Eddie

    Eddie Level 0 Character

    I think that is a simple and friendly alternative. I've already been testing the waters, and I've learned a lot about what works and where my strengths and weaknesses are.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
  10. grodog

    grodog Troubadour

    There's a great article on playing in tournaments in Dragon #70, "How To Make the Most Out Of FRP Tournaments," written by Ken Rolston. It's geared toward playing in tournaments, but you can reverse engineer a lot of the advice to help with tourney design, too.

    Some other articles to consider:

    Tournament play
    - "How Many Ettins Is a Fire Giant Worth?" Bob Blake 19(6) OD&D
    - "Tournament Success In Six Steps" Jon Pickens 30(26) --
    Tournament Adventure design
    - "10 Commandments of Tournament Writing, The" Jonathan Evans 201(76) --
    - "Different Design, A" Lisa R. Cohen 108(30) D&D1
    Tournaments Judging Fairly
    - "In the Interest of Fairness..." Dr. Allen Barwick 49(6) D&D1
    Tournament Scoring
    - "Tournament Tabulation Formula..." Jon Mattson 34(28) D&D1

    ISTR that Cohen's article in Dragon 108 was pretty good too.

    Allan.
     
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  11. Eddie

    Eddie Level 0 Character

    Thanks. I have the back issues 1-250 on disc, and will start reading these.
     
  12. Kubo

    Kubo Level 0 Character

    In reading your post, I'm surprised that you had such apparent difficulty running events with your experience. As a general rule, I find that it is best not to run any game that has not been play tested at a con, even if play tested by 1 or 2 players. The play test gives you a head's up on potential challenges, including play time. A pre-published game adventure module is usually a stinker to play at cons. They are often way too long, meant for campaign play, and filled with fluff and filler to meet the page count. Players rightfully expect and want to complete the adventure, and not by playing overtime. Although players can differ on what they want in terms of play style and game expectations, generally the players should leave your game table with a smile. With the amount of experience you have, you should hopefully recall some game sessions where the players left the game telling you the game was awesome. If not, you are running games that are too ambitious. As a game master, I've had my share of game ideas that were flops. Neither you nor the players want flops at conventions. It's not a time to experiment, it's a time to bring your best stuff. Experiment at home gaming group or at your local gaming store. Think about it. No one wants to pay money and travel maybe hundreds of miles to play games that suck. It's also a disservice to the games you love. How likely would you continue playing a game you were introduced to where everyone left the table dissatisfied?
     
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  13. mark

    mark Spellbinder

    Oh? Drop me a line.
     
  14. Eddie

    Eddie Level 0 Character

    I am very proud of the games I've run where the players stayed to the end and said it was awesome. I will always cherish the fond memories I have of them, though I don't know the players' names except for Glenn. Some of the games I've enjoyed running for you all at GaryCon have been among the very best experiences I've ever had with D&D.

    Just take my word for it I will reproduce the same kinds of games that worked. The players from the Maze Under the Goat Herders' Trails, for example, persuaded me to take more seriously my potential to write "convention games", that is, adventures really good for a convention. I will make a lot more like that one, because it was so well enjoyed. That will make the most of the convention.

    And Glenn, I will come to Nexus Gamefair in May, in Milwaukee.
     
    Kubo likes this.
  15. Eddie

    Eddie Level 0 Character

    How do I reach you?
     
  16. mark

    mark Spellbinder

    I just sent you a PM. Check your "Alerts" in the upper right corner of any page.
     
  17. Eddie

    Eddie Level 0 Character

    I have read all of the articles except 1 now. The information has been great. I know tournament writing is going to be for me.

    I also came across an article by Frank Mentzer, which he wrote in answer to another person's article about "Saving the AD&D Open", at the time, I forget which issue, but in this article, Mr. Mentzer has the very scenario I thought of! It's called a BATTLE ROYAL.

    I am not sure if they ever tried it (he says it was a new idea under consideration at the time), but what you do is get together a total of 16 people, divided into two teams of 8. You get them into 1 room, and they compete with each other to achieve the same goals. In this way, the judge(s) can quickly assess everyone's performance, both both individual winners, 1st-3rd place, and which team won.

    My question is how can I, a humble little unknown, get enough players interested in this?

    I'm going to start writing my own article, and preparing one BATTLE ROYAL, and 1-2 regular events for next year.
     
  18. stahlnee

    stahlnee Spellbinder

    This is not the same scenario you proposed earlier. When Frank runs this scenario is it two groups going head to head against one another. It is not two groups having different adventures.
     
  19. Eddie

    Eddie Level 0 Character

    I proposed a tournament where in the final round, two groups would play the same adventure together at the same table. I suggested they could cooperate to complete the same goals, and still win as the team that did better in scoring, and the individual placements would consider players from both sides of course. It would also be possible under this format to have the two groups playing the same adventure go more head to head against one another, but I envision it as they're playing an adventure and not just trying to defeat the other team's characters. It's more of a scenario of "Can we make it there first," or "Let's try this together, but only the one team that does a better job will win."

    Mr. Mentzer's BATTLE ROYAL is what I'd like to do most of all. It is the same scenario, except it's not the last round of a tournament but instead a stand alone. I am amazed I thought of something he did, too, and would probably like to just advertise and run the BATTLE ROYAL and let that one event be the tournament.
     
  20. Eddie

    Eddie Level 0 Character

    Can anyone tell me what kinds of BATTLE ROYALS Mr. Mentzer has done? I would love to read about how they went, whether they were popular and had enough players. I just want to get 16 players at the table, and I'll be ready to make it happen.
     

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