C&C / Osric

Discussion in 'RPG Discussion' started by Kaladhan, Jul 4, 2010.

  1. Kaladhan

    Kaladhan Level 0 Character

    I always try to keep in touch with what's happening in the gaming community. One thing that went under my radar was the throwback to earlier versions of D&D with games like Castles & Crusades or Osric.

    As an upcoming father, I'm yearning for simpler systems. I'm also changing from a campaign focused gamer to something closer to making one-shots with friends that includes pre-gens.

    How close are they to the basic set that went out years ago? What differences did they make? Can I take an old module (like Keep on the Borderlands) and play it without much modifications?

    Thanks! :)
  2. chainsaw

    chainsaw Troubadour

  3. Kaladhan

    Kaladhan Level 0 Character

    Is there a part 2 somewhere that covers C&C?

    So far, I think Osric is better suited for what I want... but I'm curious as to way they mean by less "gygaxian style". Although I've certainly heard the expression before, I started playing with a french translation of the BECMI books. I'm not sure how much translation went into the "gygaxian style".

    I hope I doesn't get tagged an heretic. ;)
  4. chainsaw

    chainsaw Troubadour

    I don't know anything about C&C, as I have never played it and don't know real-life person who does.

    OSRIC is excellent and you can find more information on the system and new 1E modules at OSRIC's home, http://www.knights-n-knaves.com.
  5. Mythmere

    Mythmere Level 0 Character

    There are several "retro-clone" games out there; OSRIC is virtually identical to AD&D; Swords & Wizardry is like Original D&D (probably not as close as OSRIC is to AD&D, but OD&D is less precise in the first place). If you are specifically looking for a clone of the Red Box basic set, then Labyrinth Lord is designed to do that, and is a very close reproduction of it. Another red box version is Basic Fantasy Roleplaying Game by Chris Gonnerman - it is tweaked in a couple of ways, so it's less of an exact clone than Labyrinth Lord.

    There is actually a fair amount of recognition for these games out in the wider world - Swords & Wizardry and Labyrinth Lord are both distributed to stores, and Swords & Wizardry even won an ENnie Award at GenCon. OSRIC isn't in the same commercial-type distribution, even though it is probably better known than the others.
  6. mordrin

    mordrin Spellbinder Staff Member

    If you haven't come across these yet, I think they would make some useful, informative reading for you.


    The ones I've seen/used (OSRIC, LL, BFRPG) are very similar to the originals they mimic. Compatability a very, very minor issue.
    I think C&C and Hackmaster are the 'least identical', although I've not played/read either, so I can't swear to it.
  7. deogolf

    deogolf Chevalier

    If you want to run a Basic game, I'd probably go with Labryinth Lord.
    OSRIC is pretty much identical to AD&D; so, if you have the old books, use them.
    C&C is a rule set that's easily compatible with most D&D game systems. Not a radical as some would leave you to believe on other websites. Heck, even Gary used it for a short time to playtest some of the Yggsburgh stuff (I knows cuz I was der!! ;) ).

    Overall, you really can't go wrong with any of them.

    Or, just buy a basic set off of Ebay for a few $'s.
  8. chainsaw

    chainsaw Troubadour

    I agree, but would elaborate a little for added context:

    So anyway, for brand new players, the OSRIC writing is likely a lot less intimidating than the original AD&D PHB/DMG and some chapters (Ch. 3: How to Play) should be essential reading for them (and a great refresher for more experienced folks). Ultimately though, PnP's gateway drug comment is pretty apt. I find that whenever I read OSRIC, I'm then inspired to read the original PHB or DMG. With any luck, that will be true for you and your players as well. Good luck!
  9. bighara

    bighara Chevalier

    For starters, Mazeltov on the upcoming progeny! :)

    I played C&C for a while. It's got a "1e feel" to it (if that makes any sense), but uses a more unified mechanic, like d20. It's called the SIEGE engine. Simply put, you roll a d20 + any bonuses and modifiers to meet or beat a target number. Almost all tests are resolved this way (attacks, saving throws, etc.). The target number changes with difficulty and whether the roll is v. one of you character's "prime" scores. Otherwise it's (mostly) D&D in flavor" Elves, Dwarfs, Spell Slots, Orcs, +1 Swords, etc.

    It's pretty simple to learn and run, but I found that things starting breaking down a little as PCs got up towards 10th level. The bonuses for rolling tests got kind of high and it was nearly impossible for them to fail some rolls (with many, you add your level to the roll).

    Among the "retro-clones" out there, I own most of them. They all have their selling points, but my personal fave is Labyrinth Lord (Moldvay/Cook B/X clone). This is mostly because I'm a Moldvay fan, but it's also nicely laid out and written. The Advanced Edition Companion book allows for a more 1e style play and is a nice piece of work too.
  10. bloodymage

    bloodymage Chevalier

    I was going to suggest the Advanced Edition of LL, but bighara beat me to it. It's simpler than OSRIC, but retains the 1e character well.

    C&C is a great game as well, but it has some d20ish stuff that strays from old school, but what the Trolls tried to do was take the good from the old, take the good from the the new, throw in an original resolution system and come up with a playable game. They succeeded pretty well. Incidentally, I have a credit in the PHB. When it was being written, I was vocal about not doing the 3.0 route. The only bug I really have about it is that they're called thieves! A rogue is someone you want to keep away from your daughter! :lol:
  11. geekpreacher

    geekpreacher Spellbinder

    While I've enjoyed some OSRIC games and played some LL and other retro-clones, I have to say I keep coming back to C&C. I find it enjoyable as a system and it does provide some interesting challenges. It's also interesting that you can order special copies from Troll Lords where you can have your house rules printed in the book as an appendix.

    Of course, one of the reasons I really like a number of products made off the d20 engine is the ascending Armor Class. I've also found it's easy to convert 1E, 2E & 3E adventures to the C&C engine.
  12. kersus

    kersus Footpad

    All of those mentioned are great. My favorite old-school/old-guard retro clone RPG is Spellcraft & Swordplay. It takes OD&D and imagines if it had used the default Chain Mail combat system instead of the optional combat system that became the norm. It runs very smoothly. The basic edition is available for free.
  13. javier

    javier Level 0 Character

    I tend to not agree, but my best friend agrees entirely with you. (sitting beside me).. He loves that it's free too!
  14. Melf

    Melf Administrator Staff Member

    I still prefer using the AD&D original books myself. I have run C&C as well and it is easy and works well for me. In ever ran it past 4th level, so I can't attest to the play at higher levels. Mainly I just wish I had a reliable group to play with regularly- C&C, HM, LL, S&S, OSRIC or whatever.
  15. Emperor Xan

    Emperor Xan Troubadour

    I'm in Oakley now, care to come up this way? lol
  16. grodog

    grodog Troubadour

    You should consider heading down to LA for the SoCal Minicon next summer, Luke: we had ~50 folks there weekend before last, and had a great time playing AD&D, Runequest (well Steve Perrin's Quest Rules, which are like RQ-lite), Boot Hill, and quite a bit more!: http://cyclopeatron.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... recap.html
  17. geekpreacher

    geekpreacher Spellbinder

    You and me both! This is the biggest problem I'm having right now. I really need the chance to relax and there are no local groups that it seems I can jump into at the moment. About the only way I might get in some regular gaming is if I go to the LGS and play some 4E. The only problem is that the only one playing it are 12-14 years old and I'm not sure if I could handle being the old guy at the table.

    I know there is some Pathfinder going on in the area but they play those crazy, single guy hours. You know what I'm talking about.....start about 7PM on a Friday or Saturday and play until 2 or 3 in the morning. I just can't handle those hours on a regular basis anymore.
  18. Melf

    Melf Administrator Staff Member


    Let me know when it is and I'll see if I can swing down there next year. Sounds like a good time.
  19. silas

    silas Chevalier

    I should also add that there is a Rules Cyclopedia (Frank's sets from the 80s) clone called Dark Dungeons out there.

    I don't own it, but it looks pretty cool. Maybe a kind of compromise between LL and OSRIC.
  20. clangador

    clangador Footpad

    For an OSR game, I'd have to throw my vote in for Labyrinth Lord as the closest to Basic D&D (Moldvay Basic anyways).

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