Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Melf, Mar 7, 2020.
Sadly...I expect it to be cancelled.
Today Illinois banned gatherings of 1000+.
The hotel will not let GC out of the contract as Wisconsin is “recommending” cancelation rather than banning.
Florida is the only other state that uses the language of “recommend.” Both Wisconsin and Florida have Trump rallies planned (this is not mentioned to be political, don’t make it that).
The rally in Wisconsin is March 19. I predict (as in just my guess) the language will change on March 20 or 23.
This is irresponsible of the hotel.
The GC team has obviously been doing their best and transparent. Everyone should take the actions they believe is right for them.
We could hold Garycon in the capitol building.
I called the Wisconsin Department of Health Services to ask what they mean by "recommend." While they are clear upfront that this is a recommendation and not a ban, they will also spend a good amount of time stressing all of the reasons to follow the recommendation. My takeaway was that this would have been a ban if there was not some reason preventing that language from use—be it the March 19 rally or how state and local law works in Wisconsin. You can find the number at the top of this notice https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/dph/memos/communicable-diseases/2020-05.pdf
If the use of recommendation is due to the rally, then after March 19 they may change the language to a ban.
It should be noted that the recommendation was targeted at Wisconsin Local Health Officers, Tribal Health Officials, Infection Preventionists, and Health Care Providers. This may indicate the state is looking to local health offices to order full-on bans for whatever reason.
In Walworth County, the Local Health Officers is the Walworth County Department of Health and Human Services.
Again, personally, my heart goes out to the Gygax family and all of the organizers. They out their love, blood, sweat and tears into this event to honor the memory of someone dear to them. They also understand this event is about family—Luke has said that specifically a number of times. While the organizers have their hands tied by the hotel (and may be limited in what they can say), we all have to do what is best to preserve our families — both those by blood and those by bonds. There will be other GaryCons, there will be other conventions, the important thing is that this big messy gaming family all be around to gather then.
Indiana is also recommending not having gathers of 250 or more.
Yeah, "ban" needs to be in there to help folks get out of contracts that might be financially ruinous.
It is why they are so careful about the language. They understand the legal ramifications.
Illinois is banning 1000+ - I just heard a clip of the governor saying they would literally "break up" gatherings of 1000+. But they still only "recommend" against 250+.
So there is a difference. The difference is there for a reason - legal and financial.
Keep your powder dry. If you feel it is in your best interest to personally cancel, do so. Otherwise, wait and see...
Yup, and some local officials are going the next step to put bans in place. The ball is in Walworth County's court now.
This is the current situation:
COVID-19 mortality rates depend a lot on age, underlying health issues, and smoking. For people in their 50s, the mortality rate is around 1.2%, and for people in their 40s it is only 0.7%.
But for people aged 60+, the mortality rate skyrockets, and by the time you get into elderly populations, it goes into double-digits. Smoking greatly increases the chances of a moderate case becoming severe or critical, and it is one of the reasons that Italy (oldest population in Europe, 21% of people smoke) has been hit so hard.
So what does this mean for Garycon? Well here are the issues:
1. We have a LOT of people attending above the age of 60, and many in their 50s.
2. We have quite a few smokers among the group (see all the guys out back smoking while gaming is going on)
3. We have a large number of people with underlying health issues (diabetes, cancer, heart disease, etc.)
4. We have people coming from all over the US, and some from overseas to the convention. Some of these people have recently been on cruises, even after the CDC told Americans not to do that
5. The cases of the virus are going up in Wisconsin and Illinois (and other surrounding states. Ohio might have 100k people with it)
So if you are a younger guy, you don't have to worry about dying from this thing, and might not even know you have it. But the older guys are going to be hard-hit.
BUT: if one person comes into GC with this virus and infects others, many of us could end up quarantined, either at home, or in the hotel. The Grand Geneva would have to shut down totally, and begin a massive clean-up effort. There would be people in hazmat suits in the halls.
And if anyone dies, there would be finger-pointing and lawsuits. This could become expensive, public, etc.
Not putting this here to be a troll or to raise a panic: this is the situation, and this convention is a high-risk endeavor right now
I am in agreement with you and it is unfortunate right now that the Grand Geneva is placing profit above public safety. This is not a GaryCon thing but the management and board of directors of the Grand Geneva that are putting the financial well being of themselves ahead of any of the GC attendees.
Also in agreement.
At best, this is a PR disaster in the making for the Grand Geneva.
No one is forcing you to attend. It is your decision.
Both sides have their policy regarding refunds/deposits. That was known when you signed up.
If Gary Con cancels without the state banning gatherings of a certain size or larger, it would be still have to abide by its contract with the Grand.
For Gary Con that would be financially ruinous. For the Grand, it could size.
So, either we have a year without Gary Con or maybe forever without Gary Con.
If the Grand Geneva shuts down because of the virus, or the governor / state officials do not allow the convention to proceed, a couple things can happen
1. Gary Con's insurance kicks in (if they have any--and I am pretty sure they do). So in the event that the Grand does not refund the deposits, etc., the policy will cover the cost.
2. The Grand refunds all deposits for the room block and any deposits made for equipment rentals, etc. (which is pretty minimal)
Luke can then either refund the badge costs to the attendees, or work out a deal with Tabletop to carry over the badges until 2021. His out-of-pocket cost would be minimal at-best. The hotel would refund room costs.
The refund policy, as currently stated, refers to situations in which badge holders do not attend the convention for personal reasons. It isn't going to cover situations like this, or something like the hotel burning down the day before the event.
Tabletop, GC, etc. can point to the refund policy all they want, but that isn't going to hold up in court, with the BBB, credit card companies, or anyone else, if the convention is shut down. You can't sell tickets to a huge concert, then cancel the concert, and say "no refunds". Remember the Fyre Festival?
I trust Luke will do the right thing if the event is actually shut down.
Now if it proceeds as planned, no one is entitled to a refund, even if they are worried about the virus.
Just received in an email from the GG:
"We know how stressful this time is for everyone, and so we are committed to offering flexible booking and cancellation options for our leisure travelers. Any new or existing reservations for travel between now and April 30, 2020 can be changed or cancelled at no charge including “Advance Purchase” bookings that are described as non-cancellable."
Look, we all love playing at Garycon. If the event would have been set-up as a non-profit, to begin with, and monies made allocated to local charities rather than into the pocket of Luke, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Luke has been stubborn about shutting down GaryCon because he, himself, loses money. He's not being stubborn because he wants us to play games. Having been to Garycon for several years, Luke rarely associates with the average player. He hides behind a glass partition in the VIP room. He's more interested in hanging with the celebrity guests. From what I can tell, he's been profiting off his Dad's name. Canceling Garycon because of a serious pandemic wouldn't be ruinous to the event, it would be ruinous to Luke's pocket. Make GaryCon a non-profit event. Give the money to people that need it the most like the many Children's Cancer Hospitals. We would still pay and play at Garycon. The only difference is that playing games would be for a good cause.
Aren't you the judgemental asshole. Run your own convention if you think it's so bloody simple.
Over the years, I've seen Luke playing in plenty of games outside the VIP room and even played in one of them. Of course, as the con has grown, so has Luke's responsibilities, but I still see him in the corridors and never seen him dismiss anyone who stops him to say hello. But really, I don't see what your point is regarding who Luke would rather hang with.
Luke's pocket is GaryCon. Sure, he makes money off GaryCon, but it doesn't happen without upfront investments and risk. If he has to eat that risk, he may not be able financially able to assume that risk the following year and might think twice about assuming that risk again. And by the way, GaryCon does raise funds for charity.
Have any PROOF of this steaming pile?
This statement is comedy. Fyre Festival was clearly fraudulent, and resulted in Billy McFarland being sentenced to jail and forfeiting millions, so you might want to put more wisdom in your choice of examples. Or is this intentional, and you are insinuating something?
The BBB, and credit card companies aren't going to take anyone to court in this matter, and even writing that is laughable. Not sure if you have ever interacted with the BBB, but they have no authority, jurisdiction or potency. A credit card company won't do anything in the court system for a $65, $165, or $500 badge. Their process is to claw back the funds if within 90 days (typically), or longer if extenuating circumstances. If outside that window, they move on.
Separate names with a comma.