Gary Con XII Cancelled

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Melf, Mar 13, 2020.

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  1. silas

    silas Chevalier

    I did offer suggestions above

    Apparently my IQ level is high enough to understand when the math doesn't add up, and people are spinning false narratives (like GC is a non-profit, that it doesn't make money, etc.). I'm not hysterical, I just don't want to be a sucker quite frankly.

    And this idea that the t-shirts cost some huge amount of money isn't true: many of those shirts are sold to attendees and not given out as swag. Luke can either sell them at the next GC (which would be GC XII still), give them to gold badge holders+ next year, etc. So the cost is simply carried over to next year.

    I'd like Khasimir to show me how some t-shirts and a few wheelchair rentals = $230,000. I'm not the one sounding really stupid here
  2. stahlnee

    stahlnee Spellbinder

    Serious doubt those are the only non-refundable expenses.
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
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  3. Khasimir

    Khasimir Footpad

    I don't need to. I didn't claim Gary Con spent the entirety of the badge dollars. I simply said your "I would put the cost of the swag, shirts, additional equipment, etc. at no more that $10,000" was laughably stupid, and then asked if you thought 2-3k in the type of t-shirts the con needs can be done for under $10k, which it can't.

    Yes you are, actually. Gary Con clearly orders large quantities of t-shirts for the attendees, which was to exceed 2500, if not 3k this year IIRC. Plus t-shirts for the hundred or several hundred GM's getting the special t-shirt. Plus volunteer t-shirts, and server t-shirts. So let's say there's a total forecast rate of 2 out of 3 attendees get a shirt of one reason or another. For 3k attendees/staff/volunteers/family, etc that's 1800 shirts. That's also ignoring people getting multiples, and some other variables as well.
    Anyone who's ever ordered print material knows you are upcharged for quality of the material, additional images (front, back and sleeve in this case) and for additional color. Oh yes, and in the case of t-shirts extra large or long sizes too. Considering these factors, each t-shirt, even when ordered in bulk quantity, are going to be expensive, likely in the $10-$20 range, each.

    What about the challenge coins? Patches? Hats? Mats? Water Bottles? Mugs? Cups? Programs? Lanyards? Badges? Dice? Signs? Setup items needed like stands, curtains? Storage fees? Modules? Stuffed Animals? Exclusive items for GOH/TSR Employees or Family?

    Look up the approximate cost of ordering this stuff in bulk, and you're realize how stupid your $10k claim is.

    What about insurance? Any type of bond required by the Grand/Lake Geneva? Advertising? Comping Con Leadership/GOH/Old Guard/Gygax Family travel and/or hotel? All of that stuff adds up really, really quickly as well.

    Nobody is claiming all of the money is spent, especially not me, but anyone suggesting they have anywhere near $200k sitting in the bank waiting to be refunded should be careful they don't purchase waterfront property in the desert.
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  4. silas

    silas Chevalier

    I know for a fact that GC has only a simple liability insurance policy (from one of the previous organizers). Likewise, I am not aware of any advertising campaign on tv or radio. The convention gets its advertising through word of mouth and social media

    The t-shirts can be used next year, as it is still GC XII. A bunch of bottles, cups, etc. don't equal 100-200k.

    Now it does cost money to print the program, but I'm not even sure the program was printed. The one from last year was pretty simple and not something very expensive to produce.

    Unless there is some huge expense I don't know about, not even 1/4th of the money was spent on the convention. And if someone wants to argue with me on this, show me the financials.
  5. jim skach

    jim skach Troubadour

    Just to be clear - we've gone from 10K to 50K in just a few posts, yeah?

    Math is hard for me so I need to keep up...
  6. Jarlaxle

    Jarlaxle Troubadour

    You missed one: I would expect they had a pile of them made to SELL at the Con! (They do every year, as I recall.)

    Someone (I recall Kask...) went into some detail about this on FB, and it adds up FAST.
  7. sir jon

    sir jon Spellbinder

    Why do I pay $2.19 for a 20 oz Coke when I can get a 2 litre bottle for $1.59?

    This is the argument I'm seeing here - and yet, that purchase is still made. Your continued flaggellating of your belief of misappropriated spending is far beyond you, Colin. Why are you so upset, really?
  8. silas

    silas Chevalier

    I'm not sure what your point is Jon

    $200 might be nothing to you, but it isn't a trivial sum to me. If this convention were some fledgling operation with 300 attendees that made little, if any money, I would simply write it off. That isn't the case, as I have proven here.

    Now if you guys think I'm wrong, you simply need to show me the financials, otherwise you are speaking out your rear-ends. Taking someone's word for it (that "the money is spent") isn't something I'm going to do in this instance.
  9. jim skach

    jim skach Troubadour

    I would also like to point out this line in the email about cancellation: "We have to assess the financial impacts before we can tell you..."

    I'd suggest keeping powder dry until this all shakes out. Imagine trying to deal with all of this WHILE having to deal with a family of four under whatever CA is doing WHILE having to be in the military (which you damn well know is doing all sorts of shit to prepare for the worst).

    Luke can tell you I do not take it easy on him - but in this case I'm willing to be patient. I would suggest we all do the same....
  10. Khasimir

    Khasimir Footpad

    That's a disingenuous request, and you know it. You know that only a few people are privy to the financials, and we aren't them. We, or more so, me, might very well be speaking out of rear ends, but considering you've certainly been, that's a level playing field for you, at best.
    Unlike you, however, my rear end speaking isn't sullying the reputation of the Con, and Luke Gygax. Our rear end speaking isn't turning people away from the Con. It's not enabling people who are trying to figure out what the hell to make of this say "to hell with Gary Con". It's not encouraging other people to bitch about any or everything they feel is wrong, nor is it on the verge of libelous, and insinuating thievery on Luke's part.
    $200 isn't chump change to you, and you'd like to get it back. Your continued behavior about this demonstrates you're either a colossal whiner, or you're hell bent to get your $200 back by cutting Gary Con and/or Luke has hard as you can. Act like an adult and talk with Luke directly, rather than airing your grievances publicly, and repeatedly.
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  11. jim

    jim Level 0 Character

    Even if they decide to call it XII and not XIII, the t-shirts very likely have dates printed on them. The XI shirts did.
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  12. stahlnee

    stahlnee Spellbinder

    They can choose to make shirts for next year with next years dates and GC XII.
  13. silas

    silas Chevalier

    you clearly don't understand what libel is, and your math skills are sketchy. The organizer owes badge holders money according to Wisconsin state law, and it is unethical to not refund anything, while putting up some nebulous excuse such as "money has been spent" without showing anyone financials, or explaining, in detail, where the money went. Now if he can show that he will take a huge loss by doing a refund, I might be sympathetic. Right now I'm not.

    Luke could have purchased insurance to cover losses incurred from situations like this. Those that organize concerts and events do it all the time. But he chose not to, and quite frankly, that isn't my problem or anyone's else's. He purchased a general liability policy only.

    And I have discussed this with him. It ended with me calling out his bs and asking for my money back.
  14. EOTB

    EOTB Level 0 Character

    If you think you're covered by Wisconsin state law for small claims following that process doesn't include what you're doing here. Dozens of cumulative posts here and anywhere GC has a presence is making a scene, Karen-style. People do that because they're pissed and want to cause hell, not because they're trying to recoup money they think they're legally owed. If that's all that's desired they'd use those channels with the least time invested in the issue as possible.
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  15. stahlnee

    stahlnee Spellbinder

    As do other merchanise. Challenge coins I have all have dates and years on both sides.
  16. JediSoth

    JediSoth Troubadour

    Then lawyer up and take them to court. You've had a chip on your shoulder re: Gary Con for years now. You obviously have a problem with the organizers. However, none of that is really any one else's business and I think I speak for a lot of people here when I say it's extremely distasteful for you to keep bringing it up in public. It reflects poorly upon you and upon the Dead Games Society. If you think you have an actual case, file in Small Claims Court. This message board is NOT the place for that. No one here wants to hear it.
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
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  17. Legion

    Legion Level 0 Character

    I have never been to GC this year would have been my first for me and my friends. I was able to get a room at the GG but because of table top crashing so much was un able to get the badge I would have like or in to any of the games I wanted to play. That being said I hold no ill will against the con or it’s staff because that’s not what D&D is about it’s about bringing people together. If the con has to keep my $115 CDN for my badge to be able to keep going then so be it. I look forward to attending next year to play games and make new friends.
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  18. silas

    silas Chevalier

    I am not suing anyone, and I don't have any specific issue with the organizers. But you sure have an issue with me.

    <Nope. MOD>
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2020
  19. Vort

    Vort Level 0 Character

    That was uncalled for and I think we were warned off personal attacks. Keep it respectful people. Just walk away, it's not worth it.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2020
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  20. mordrin

    mordrin Spellbinder Staff Member

    Correct on all counts
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