Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by gizmomathboy, Feb 9, 2020.
Just an attempt to get out the data analysis thread and over to here...
I have no issues with the old way, the people who lose with the new system are the ones who paid more to attend.. Especially the gold if the event is popular.
To be honest, I will never get a gold badge again, early registration to try for 1 seat in a popular event is horrible.
Because I ran over 28 Hours of games at the ones I have attended (excluding this years) I needed the early registration for events because I could only play in 3 games at the most.
but hey, kudos to the ones who claimed it was not fair that the coveted seats went to the ones who reupped as platinum every year and complain they cant get get a badge higher than gold... or even get a gold badge
But the better solution would have been to set aside 2 seats from select games (not the "feature games" that had many seats left over) and then give everyone interested a week to get on the waitlist... and randomly select 2 people for the table from the waitlist
Events having fewer than 7 available seats it would be nice to spread the seats across all badge levels more uniformly. For instance for a 4 seat game have one seat become available at each badge level. Another case is for events having 6 seats open less than 3 for diamond badges.
Format: tickets released by badge level.
1+1+1+1 = one ticket released at each badge level. Diamond, platinum, gold and silver.
For events with 7+ available tickets then the percentages allow for one or more ticket to be release at each badge level registration.
Been thinking the following would help to spread the availability.
6 total tickets: 2+1+1+2
5 total tickets: 2+1+1+1
4 total tickets: 1+1+1+1
3 total tickets: 1+0+1+1
2 total tickets: 1+0+0+1
Not sure how viable this might be to implement though.
Sorry, Greg, but I'm gonna call bullshit on this one. There aren't a lot of seats being held for silver- one or two per game- so your odds of getting into that game don't decrease substantially. If the game is that popular, you were highly unlikely to get in anyway, since under the old system, diamond and platinum could and did fill games before you would have even had a chance. Not to mention the other gold badge holders who would also be trying for those few remaining tickets, if any. If you don't feel a gold badge has sufficient value for you anymore, someone else will happily take advantage next year.
The old system wasn't fair. It created a class system wherein those with a more expensive badge were absolutely treated differently than those with the basic badge. I understand that the con needs the revenue provided by the higher tier badges. However, maybe instead of putting a bunch of stuff in a high end swag bag, that money gets put back into the con or lower the badge price accordingly. I don't know what all is in the bags, as I have never gotten one, but I know there was a Gary Con knife a few years ago. Do you badge holders really want/ need this stuff, or would you rather see the money used some other way?
I could get behind this idea. It still gives everyone a shot at any game. The problem is how to determine which games they do that with. That was the problem with the featured games in the past that ended up not filling. Too many games were considered featured that people were not willing to rank as their top few choices, so they couldn't get players.
I had no issue with higher tier badges being rewarded earlier access to events. People paid more for the badges so the perk was fair. I'll reserve judgement on the new process until after I attempt to register.
As a first iteration...it could be better.
Without knowing how TTE and GC implemented it, a "fairer" system would unlock at least 1 seat at each badge level. After that...it's really just lots of tweaking.
With 4 badge levels, any event not divisible by 4 have to handle those leftover seats. Where do they go? I would say start adding a seat per badge level starting at diamond. Preserves some of the higher badge level advantage and gives silver/standard/whatever a shot at a seat in a high demand event.
Especially given the median number of seats per event...
Excellent work, as always, Gizmo..
I wonder if there's a kind of "black market" of seats going on to some extent. Look at the proportion of 6-seat versus 8-seat games. [[I don't play AL - is that one of the impacts? Is that like the standard table size for an AL game?]] Because if not, I could see a lot of judges being willing to take eight seats, but putting in a game for six seats, intentionally leaving space for walk-ups...? Maybe?
I think I can break out AL stuff.
For my events I list 7 seats available because I always reserve 1 seat for walk-ups. Always.
Last year, I registered late so I did not get gold, this year I skipped the gold because of the changes.. Next year, I plan on being a silver with my free badge. When I did get gold, it was because I made sure to be online the moment they went on sale and the minute registration opens I am online.
Under the old system, I may not have had a shot at some games, but as a gold, the early reg gave me an advantage at most games. AS I SAID, running lots of games left me with little room in my schedule and I needed the early reg to get into the 2 games I wanted to play in (using only my Gold and none of my silver under the that system)
I do not complain about about people who laid out more money getting the perks of special games, they get a reception too, do you want that open to everyone ?
Do you want them to eliminate the $100 fee to play at Center Street so you can have a shot at a ticket ? because that is what they did with the new system for the Silvers. It's unfair that everyone who goes to Garycon does not have a shot to play at the house
Now I have tricks that I use to get my tickets that I have perfected and will not share.
It looks like for AL events...
2017: 416 events - median seats per event, 7
2018: 391 events - median seats per event, 7
2019: 348 events - median seats per event, 7
2020: 609 events - median seats per event, 6
That's with some naive matching for what I think are AL events. I have no clue how many Diamond/Platinum/Gold badges register for AL. Some I think but I don't know of any AL events that are high demand by off the top of my head.
First off - to my understanding, the primary impetus for change was NOT Silvers complaining about fairness. It was GMs (especially VIP GMs) that were unhappy because they prepped and submitted games, transported materials, blocked off time in their schedule for GMing...and then didn't get many players, because their game had been labeled "VIP" and, even though players expressed to them they wanted to play, the players had a limited number of VIP choices and couldn't pick them all. Even the end of registration "extra VIP allowance" wasn't much help, because most people didn't take advantage - either they didn't know about it and/or they were happy enough with their schedule and didn't want to go to the hassle of rerranging things.
The solution approach picked was to eliminate the limits on VIP events (by eliminating the labeling of VIP/not entirely). Now, if people want to play a game and tickets are available, you can pick it. That problem is solved.
However, by doing that, you've now increased the number of VIP events (they aren't called that anymore, but high demand events still exist) Golds can register for from 2 to As Many As You Can Cram Into Your Schedule. This is potentially a MASSIVE shift in favor of Gold badges. Something had to be done to counterbalance this and keep Golds from locusting all the most sought after games. Otherwise Golds could now numerically (342 Golds x 5 or 10 VIP events / 6 seats typically) kill off as many as 300-500 of the most sought after events before Silvers even get to log in. Staggered seat release was the chosen method of reigning in the new Gold advantage.
Secondly, every new system is going to affect different people in different ways. But I think you are only looking at this from the perspective of your registration situation (which, in fairness, is an easy mistake to make, and one I sometimes make, too), rather than consider other attendee situations and desires.
For someone in your situation, who wants as high a chance as possible at 1-3 select events, the new system will reduce your odds. For Golds who want to try and get at the same table with 4 other friends, the new system will reduce their odds. But at the same time, for people with less constraints who would be interested in getting into a lot of high demand games, the new system should make Gold badges far more appealing. If I were choosing between Gold or Silver (I've done both in the past, but this year I can only make a small part of the Con and it's just barely worth it to get a Silver for that), I would be much, much more likely to go Gold under this new system than I would under the old.
It's definitely fair (and useful - GaryCon needs feedback on the new system to evaluate it) for you to say "This new system makes Gold less appealing to me. Here's why." But I don't think it's at all fair or accurate to say "Golds are getting screwed here. Congratulations to Silvers for destroying the Gold badge with their whining." On the contrary, I think overall - individual mileage will certainly vary, as noted above - if anything, this new system favors Golds slightly more, at the expense of Silver (although, it's possible that the Golds benefiting won't be entirely aware or appreciative of it, since high demand events aren't labeled and they won't be able to look at their schedule and see - 'hey, I got 4 VIP events').
While I would bet management is open to considering alternative ideas, I'd be surprised if this approach is feasible.
I doubt TableTop has functionality to do that automatically and I don't think quitting them or manually going through that process (and then requiring people who did or didn't get in off the waitlist to adjust their schedules) are options.
And, TBH, I'm also not seeing how it substantially differs from current, except that you don't race people to get the item your basket, you just use a random number generator instead.
And how would you know in advance if an event is going to have seats left over or not?
Mordrin, you are correct. I did forget about all the excellent VIP labelled events that had ZERO people register for them. This system does address that problem.
Since I'm the rabble rouser, if you feel "the system" is unfair, stay the hell home. Kvetching without solutions (thanks gizmo for something substantial, should this current setup fail) does nothing but show your poor ability to play with others. There are enough issues in the world more pressing than your badge level. Relax, have a frosty beverage of your choice and make room for someone less whiny to come to the show.
I've told people several times, and nobody seems to believe me.
GaryCon is different. Let Go. Don't register for anything. I know, it's scary. but you'll have a blast....
It is the Zen of GaryCon.
I haven't gone Zen yet, but Gary Con is conducive to that. Especially for the wargaming stuff in the Legends room. Lots of hidden gems in there.
For the first 6 I didn't pre-sign up for anything, I just did drop in and had a good time. At year 6 several times I was not able to just find a game whenever I wanted to anymore so the next year I actually register for a few games.
I've gotten spoiled. Before selection opens, I make out my ideal schedule of 6-10 games. Normally I've gotten in 70-80% for that initial list (note that not all of those are "celebrity" games) This year I made my list and of the 7 games on it I got in one of them, 5 never opened any new slots, and 1 didn't open a new slot right away and when it did I was too slow. (The one I got in I'm the first player signed up.)
My complaint is more about the sense of not even having a shot at those other games and I guess it can be said that I could just wait and register on Saturday with Gold, but then it back to quick fingering it against a couple thousand people. I would have liked it to be better. I wish I would have noticed the math and spoken up sooner to object, saying that the Diamond % should have been 25 or 30%. For me to make a fuss now is just sour grapes.
The bottom line is that I still had hundreds of great games to choose from to build a schedule out of that were available to me. I'm going to have a good time even though I'm also having to carry all of my stuff all day and take a shuttle every morning and night. It may not be the best GaryCon for me personally, but I will still have a good time gaming with friends.
edit for punctuation
my first GaryCon was free wheeling like that. in fact i drove out 800+ miles and bought my silver badge at the door and then proceeded to have a blast.
Um, there are only like 250 Gold badges.
There are about 2,000 Silver badges.
Separate names with a comma.