Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by JediSoth, Mar 8, 2016.
Not that I saw.
Sadly, I never saw her without her cloak.
Was she the same one that dressed as Harley Quinn on Saturday?
Personally, as someone who lives in the state of Florida 20 minutes from the Fernandina Beaches, I'm sorry, but I find it incredibly laughable that anyone is offended by a female in a bikini, chainmail or not. I mean, what would you do if Gary Con were held during the summer when the pool and spa are accessible right there outside the window of the lobby and bar area in plain view? I'm sure more than one person would be coming, going, or lounging poolside in a bikini. That costume, pretty tame and far from inappropriate, imho.
Take a trip to Dragon Con in Atlanta one year and walk around on a Friday or Saturday night if you want to see offensive. Some people pull off pretty amazing costumes, others want to make you gouge out both your eyes and stick a screwdriver through your ear to clean away "that which should not be seen" from your memory.
1) the person who wore the costume is the "marketing and communications director." That is what makes it unprofessional.
She was instructed to wear the cloak, so.someone on staff must have had an issue with her with a scale mail thong bikini.
2) yes, scantily clad ladies are a part of gaming culture, but why perpetuate the stereotype that women are just here to be eye candy?
Remember the reason for this con: to remember Gary Gygax. This has been a family con, not San Diego Comic Con or Dragon Con. I'd wager that the people who chimed in are not offended by bikinis, but rather, they are offended by scale mail thong bikinis worn by a key staff member during a memorial con.
Re: Chain mail bikinis
I thought it was fine as cosplay but I can understand why some people might have been surprised by it.
Should there be a staff dress code ? Possibly just to make finding folks easier. But I think having a better centrally located HQ compared to the gaming venues would help more than dress codes in finding staff.
I don't think we should call out & shame a young woman for wearing a fun costume that she was obviously comfortable wearing (and one that was no more revealing than what's worn at the hotel pool).
As for it being contrary to Gary's legacy, are we forgetting some of the old ads for D&D and Gamma World?
The Gary Con staff was fantastic to me and my VIPs, the table-side service was great and several of the hotel staff were just superb, the Legends of Wargaming room was packed Friday and Saturday, the noise level was low (there were no roleplaying games in the Legends of Wargaming room), there was no instance of having to break down massive wargaming set-ups in 5 minutes for role-playing games as I was able to schedule my own tables, and there were only 4 no-shows out of 263 players in Legends of Wargaming events. As far as I am concerned - great success.
My only negative: The hotel supplied tables were the worst I have ever seen. Some of them were in total shambles.
Other thoughts: I think that some rules are going to have to be in place by Gary Con staff as CosPlay becomes more prevalent at Gary Con. I mean a lot of us are gamers with kids and wives along - not to mention the families and kids coming through with Spectator badges. I just came from another site that talked about a game event that had a stripper, strap-ons, phallic symbols, and a whole host of overtly sexual imagery. And then they posted photos of it! Why? What would possess someone to put on this event in a public venue like Gary Con? Most importantly why in the world would Gary Con allow this. Sure, what happens in games can certainly have bathroom humor and innuendo but it must be adjusted to the players and surrounding games with common sense. Pictures of Gary Con events are all over the internet and I think it represents Gary's memory poorly to have overtly ribald behavior on public display.
As to the Gary Con staff member wearing the chain mail bikini, she has been a loyal part of Gary Con and her father is a great guy but if I have to interact with her about events and logistics it doesn't look to good for me when my wife sees photos of me chatting-up said nubile young lady online. The first time she came up to talk to me wrapped in the cloak, the whole thing fell off right in front of me. I literally held up my hand and averted my eyes - this kid is as young as my own daughter!
Pretty much all of this.
Keep in mind, I'm of the mindset that I would prefer that cosplay not be an encouraged part of the con at all, whether the cosplay is by a communications director or not. I just like the style and vibe of the earlier Garycons.
That said, once the floodgates are opened, the idea that cosplay is going to be somewhere in between G and PG is unrealistic. You're going to have somebody in slave-Leia get-up, and that's just one iconic tip of the iceberg. That's what cosplayers do. If you shield your children's eyes when heading out to the beach, then cosplay at the con is not going to make you comfortable either.
If we're OK with our children seeing large men in intimidating, grimly-armored costumes packing large swords, then I think our kids will do OK with any other sort of cosplay that fits in at other cosplay-friendly con. No one's going to have a nightmare about the girl in the bikini. The only real option is cosplay friendly, or not. That argument seems to be settled in a way that isn't my personal preference, which is OK. But the idea that the con will be able to control the environment in the way some people are suggesting, if it is allowed, is whack-a-mole once it finishes growing into a feature in its own right.
Paul: I have to chime in on your complaints regarding the Rocky Horror event.
It was made very clear in the event catalog that it was an "After Dark" event, and not appropriate for anyone under 21. It was held later in the evening in a private room. Yes, it did feature sexual jokes, semi-nudity, etc.
We cleared it with Luke before we ran it, and I was perfectly cool not to run the event if there were objections.
But I am not entirely convinced Garycon has ever been particularly "family friendly". Now that is not to say people can't bring their kids, but in years past, I have seen:
1. Guys puking in elevators and in hallways (at the lodge) after happy hour
2. Drunken, belligerent behavior at gaming tables
3. A couple minor fist fights
4. Attendees partying in their rooms until 5am, keeping other people awake
5. Some revealing cosplay--not just this year, but in previous
Now I don't mean for this to be a criticism: Garycon for me has always been a more "adult" convention, with an older crowd than most other conventions. Midwinter is much the same way--not really for kids.
However, I will say that I know of 3-4 people who no longer attend the show because of all the drunken behavior, etc.
This is certainly not the organizer's fault. It is tough to control the behavior of everyone at the show, and there will always be some incidents.
I seem to recall that the SAME WOMAN dressed in costume 2 years ago...and yeah, I seem to recall that one of them WAS, in fact, Leia!
Short of prohibiting alcohol of any sort at GC (I don't drink and wouldn't care, but many would) I see no way to avoid things like this.
I saw a fist fight at Midwinter a couple years ago, so wherever there is booze ...
The best policy is for the attendees to be conscious of their consumption, and not turn the event into amateur hour. I certainly like to throw back a few beers after a long day of gaming, but I don't do anything to embarrass myself or the convention.
I agree there needs to be some sort of Conduct and Cosplay standard posted on the website if there isn't one already posted there. I did a quick search and didn't find one, but it's possible I may have missed it. I learned about the Rocky Horror game sort of after the fact. I didn't realize it was a LARP-like event, and I don't believe it was advertised as such, but again, there needs to be some sort of standards posted so people understand there is a standard of conduct that is expected. When a con becomes this size, it sort of becomes necessary to formalize things that were "understood" when the con was smaller.
ETA: I wasn't paying attention to the exact wording of the Rocky Horror event. Apparently, it was advertised as After Dark, over 21, but since it wasn't an event in which I had any interest, I passed it by.
My point, which seems to have been missed by about two-thirds of men in this thread, is that certain attire is appropriate for certain times and a staff members of a convention of which we are customers should be cognizant of that fact.
Hans: I didn't think the Red Sonja outfit was objectionable. We can't be that prudish. It wasn't any different than a bikini kids see on the beach.
I am much more worried about unruly behavior
I'm not going to stop this conversation, but I'm also not going to encourage the beating of a dead horse. As @JediSoth and @Tink333 suggest, until we as a Con establish and publicize clear conduct and dress codes, there isn't anything anyone can point to beyond their own sensibilities and I don't see that becoming a constructive conversation. Good points made on all sides, so let's leave it there and get this thread back to the many other points of helpful feedback issuing forth.
Well there are several discussions here ...
CosPlay guidelines in general
GaryCon staff dressing guidelines
One thing that am wondering now that we are all discussing this is there a defined code of conduct for Gary Con and a reporting system for issues as well as a process for dealing with issues ?
If the convention is planning to grow, it should have these things figured out. It's harder to get right in practice than one might think.
I looked at the website but I did not see anything right away.
Just to head off the inevitable jokes, can we call it a Standards of Conduct? It's at least one of the communities/conferences that I am a part of call it.
How about in Baghdad when we operated with the Iraqi 43rd Brigade out of a Combined Operations Center. "Attention in the CoC!" The Iraqis couldn't get enough of it.
DGS After Dark: The Rocky Horror Picture Show
March 4 @ 8:00 pm - March 5 @ 12:00 am
GM: Michael Browne
Give yourself over to absolute pleasure in this DGS After Dark Adventure. On your way to a church retreat, the bus you are traveling in breaks down in front of a mysterious castle. As the dark clouds close in and the rain begins to fall you muster up the courage to ring the doorbell. Perhaps they have a phone you can use. Must be 21 or older. ID’s will be checked at the door. This show will have adult themes, men and women dressed in drag and other naughtiness. Also this is part RPG and Part LARP so participation is necessary for the full experience.
Guest DM: Frank-N-Furter
A Burlesque number with no nudity was part of the show.
This was a closed door event with adults who purchased tickets in advance.
The Larp did not spill out into the convention floor so that no non-ticketed attendees were aware of the of the event and the going ons.
As far as photographs taken during the event and going on the web I have not found them. Please provide a link, I would like to see them and add them to my collection of con photographs.
The event was run by adults for adults. Any activity was consensual by all parties involved.
Any complaints about my game are by persons who did not even attend the event. The 8 PCs had a great time and speak very highly of it.
Separate names with a comma.